09:53 < kanzure> i am bored don't judge me
09:53 < kanzure> Goss, S.A., Johnston, R.L., and Dunn, F. (1978). Comprehensive compilation of empirical ultrasonic properties of mammalian tissues. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 62, 423-455
09:54 < kanzure> Velling, V.A., and Shklyaruk, S.P. (1988). Modulation of the functional state of the brain with the aid of focused ultrasonic action. Neurosci. Behav. Physiol. 18, 369-375.
09:55 < kanzure> White, P.J., Clement, G.T., and Hynynen, K. (2006). Local frequency dependence in transcranial ultrasound transmission. Phys. Med. Biol. 51; 2293-2305.
09:56 < kanzure> Young, R.R., and Henneman, E. (1961). Functional effects of focused ultrasound on mammalian nerves. Science 134, 1521-1522.
09:56 < kanzure> Zhang, S., Yin, L., and Fang, N. (2009). Focusing ultrasound with an acoustic metamaterial network. Phys. Rev. Lett. 102, 194301-194304.
09:57 < kanzure> Martin, E., Jeanmonod, D., Morel, A., Zadicario, E., and Werner, B. (2009). High-intensity focused ultrasound for noninvasive functional neurosurgery. Ann. Neuroi. 66, 858-861.
09:58 < kanzure> Ludwig, G.D. (1950). The velocity of sound through tissues and the acoustic impedance of tissues. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 22, 862-866.
09:58 < kanzure> Lele, P.P. (1963). Effects of focused ultrasound radiation on peripheral nerve, with observations on local heating. Experimental Neurology 8, 47-83.
09:59 < kanzure> Hynynen, K., McDannold, N., Clement, G., Jolesz, F.A., Zadicario, E., Killiany, R., Moore, T., and Rosen, D. (2006). Pre-clinical testing of a phased array ultrasound system for MRI-guided noninvasive surgery of the brain - a primate study. Eur. J. Radiol. 59, 149-156.
10:02 < kanzure> Hynynen, K., Clement, G.T., MacDannold, N., Vykhodtseva, N., King, R., White, P.J., Vitek, S., and Jolesz, F.A. (2004). 500-element ultrasound phased array system for noninvasive focal surgery of the brain: a preliminary rabbit study with ex vivo human skulls. Magn. Reson. Med. 52, 100-107.
10:03 < kanzure> Hynynen, K., and Clement, G. (2007). Clinical applications of focused ultrasound-the brain. Int. J. Hyperthermia 23, 193-202.
10:04 < kanzure> Hayner, M., and Hynynen, K. (2001). Numerical analysis of ultrasonic transmission and absorption of oblique plane waves through the human skull. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 110, 3319-3330.
10:04 < kanzure> Harvey, E.N. (1929). The effect of high frequency sound waves on heart muscle and other irritable tissues. Am. J. Physiol. 91, 284-290.
10:05 < kanzure> Gavrilov, L.R., Gersuni, G.V., Illyinsky, O.B., Sirotyuk, M.G., Tsirulnikov, E.M., and Shchekanov, E.E. (1976). The effect of focused ultrasound on the skin and deep nerve structures of man and animal. Prog. Brain Res. 43, 279-292.
10:06 < kanzure> Fry, F.J., Ades, H.W., and Fry, W.J. (1958). Production of reversible changes in the central nervous system by ultrasound. Science 127, 83-84.
10:06 < kanzure> Foster, K.R., and Wiederhold, M.L. (1978). Auditory responses in house cats produced by ceiling-mounted pulsed ultrasound. J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 63, 1199-1205.
10:08 < kanzure> Bachtold, M.R., Rinaldi, P.C., Jones, J.P., Reines, F., and Price, L.R. (1998). Focused ultrasound modifications of neural circuit activity in a mammalian brain. Ultrasound Med. Biol. 24, 557-565.
10:09 < kanzure> Yusuf Tufail, Alexei Matyushov, Nathan Baldwin, Monica L. Tauchmann, Joseph Georges, Anna Yoshihiro, Stephen I. Helms Tillery, and Willaim J. Tyler. Transcranial pulsed ultrasound stimulates intact brain circuits. Neuron 66, 681-694.
10:11 < kanzure> Y. Tufail, W. Tyler; Design and initial implementation for a wearable ultrasonic neurostimulation device and demonstration of direct involuntary motor control. 2009.
10:13 < kanzure> "We have used the isolated retina to characterize the effects of ultrasound on an intact neural circuit. In the isolated salamander retina, we recorded the spiking responses of ganglion cells to ultrasound and light using an array of 60 electrodes. 40 MHz was delivered from a piezoelectric transducer in saline at a working distance of 4mm. Pulse trains lasting 3-30 microseconds continued for one second, and were presented at a frequency of 0.5 Hz.T
10:14 < kanzure> "Ultrasound responses were stable for 300s, contained ON and OFF transients of different types, and showed sustained activity [...] This indicates that ultrasound stimuli activated some cells downstream of photoreceptors."
10:14 < kanzure> "The effects decayed to half maximal over 300 microns, considerably larger than the ultrasound stimulus focal spot. This laterla spread is within the spatial scale of lateral connections, including those from horizontal and amacrine cells. Ultrasound is thus likely stimulating interneurons within the circuit."
10:15 < kanzure> ^retina work was M. D. Menz, O. Oralkan, E. Guleyupoglu, P. Khuri-yakub, S. Baccus at stanford
10:19 < kanzure> Hynynen K., Jolesz F.A. (1998). Demonstration of potential noninvasive ultrasound brain therapy through an intact skull. Ultrasound Med. Biol. 24, 275-283.
10:21 < kanzure> Clement G.T., Hynynen K. (2002). A non-invasive method for focusing ultrasound through the human skull. Phys. Med. Biol. 47, 1219-1236.
10:22 < kanzure> Gavrilov L.R., Tsirulnikov E.M., Davies I.A. (1996). Application of focused ultrasound for the stimulation of neural structures. Ultrasound Med. Biol. 22, 179-192.
10:23 < kanzure> Tsui P.H, Wang S.H., Huang C.C. (2005). In vitro effects of ultrasound with different energies on the conduction properties of neural tissue. Ultrasonics 43, 560-565.
10:24 < kanzure> Rinaldi P.C., Jones J.P., Reines F., Price L.R. (1991). Modification by focused ultrasound pulses of electrically evoked responses from an in vitro hippocampal preparation. Brain Res. 558, 36-42.
10:47 < kanzure> Clement G.T., Sun J., Giesecke T., Hynynen K., A hemisphere array for non-invasive ultrasound brain therapy and surgery. Phys. Med. Biol. 2000;45:3707-3719.
10:52 < kanzure> http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00147056 "MRI-Guided Focused Ultrasound Feasibility Study for Brain Tumors"
10:53 < kanzure> the device has a wikipedia article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExAblate
10:54 < kanzure> "The current FDA approved ExAblate model is the version 2000 (hardware) running software version 4.2. This device is utilized in the US for treating uterine fibroids and around the world for treating uterine fibroids, pain palliation of bone metastases and is being investigated in breast cancer, prostate cancer and neuro programs"
10:55 < kanzure> http://insightec.com/
10:55 < kanzure> http://www.insightec.com/ExAblate-Neuro.html "Caution - Investigational Device - Limited by United States Law to Investigational Use." oops i guess that means everyone should go home right now
10:56 < kanzure> "Secondly, the skull has a variable thickness and density which results in the ultrasound beam being defocused. CT images are used to reconstruct the skull, and this data is used to configure the ultrasound beams coming from the phased array transducer to be properly focused at the targeted lesion."
10:58 < kanzure> it's business hours.. i should just call them 1-214-630-2000
11:01 < kanzure> or we can all go to mexico: http://www.exablate.mx/eng/e_ExAblate_1.html
11:01 < kanzure> Dr. Manuel Martinez Lopez, Dra. Cecilia Romero Trejo, Dra. Yeni Fernandez De Lara
11:01 < kanzure> Tel: (52)5666-1765, 5666-1625, 5665-0530, 5666-1869
11:01 < kanzure> irmmedicos@medicasur.org.mx , irmadmon@medicasur.org.mx
11:03 < kanzure> whitepaper: http://www.insightec.com/contentManagment/uploadedFiles/fileGallery/transcranial_mrgfus_white_paper_1.pdf
11:04 < kanzure> the whitepaper claims 1mm resolution
11:06 < kanzure> "A feasibility clinical study for elucidating the effectiveness of tcMRgFUS for glioblastoma multiforme patients is currently ongoing, and 4 of the 10 recruited patients have been treated (McDannold et al., 2010)."
11:07 < kanzure> "A feasibility study for treatment of neuropathic pain has been completed at Zurich University & Kinderspital.  The objective of the study was to replace the established minimally invasive procedure of Central Lateral Thalamotomy (RF-ablation) with MR guided focused ultrasound non-invasive procedure. Results so far: 10 patients were treated."
11:12 < kanzure> about the neuropathy study: http://www.insightec.com/18360.html
11:32 < kanzure> about their device:
11:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/A%20hemisphere%20array%20for%20non-invasive%20ultrasound%20brain%20therapy%20and%20surgery.pdf
11:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/Investigation%20of%20a%20large-area%20phased%20array%20for%20focused%20ultrasound%20surgery%20through%20the%20skull.pdf
11:40 < kanzure> "Mechanical translation to a new position is performed by physically shifting the skull over a distance of 15mm."
11:40 < kanzure> um, yeah..
12:49 < kanzure> huh, i didn't know the infrared nerve stimulation stuff was actually built
12:49 < kanzure> http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfRes/res.cfm?ID=96310
12:49 < kanzure> called 'aculight capella'
12:50 < kanzure> pdf:http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/aculight-corporation/capella-infrared-nerve-stimulator/29436-44564.html
12:52 < kanzure> "not for use on humans" heh
12:53 < kanzure> `"I was at a neural interface conference last year where a Parkinson's patient with an electrical deep-brain stimulator stood up in front of the audience," he recalled`
12:53 < kanzure> `"The patient could turn up the stimulator so that it completely stopped their tremors, but at this level they were then unable to speak." This side-effect is a symptom of electrical crosstalk. "The current is hitting the cells that it is supposed to, but it's also hitting those that it shouldn't," explained Bendett.`
12:54 < kanzure> stalk: mark.bendett@aculight.com
12:55 < mjr> yay
12:55 < mjr> I saw video of one of those implants in action in some documentary
12:55 < mjr> it was rather eerie the way it tuned the shaking up and down
12:55 < kanzure> the depth penetration for infrared is abysmal as i recall
12:56 < mjr> in that case the patient could speak also, and no major side effects were mentioned
12:56 < mjr> cool tech, though still primitive
13:12 < fenn> kanzure: matt goodman is staying at langton? it's news to me
13:13 < kanzure> as of today, apparently
13:13 < kanzure> like he'll be physically showing up?
13:13 < fenn> oh, and staying all summer. huh.
13:14 < kanzure> so yeah, ultrasonic brain melting
13:19 < fenn> why do you want to ablate neural tissue...
13:19 < kanzure> i don't :p
13:20 < kanzure> they are using it for neurosurgery (tumors)
13:20 < kanzure> but clearly if you reduce the W/mm delivered it will just be stimulation
13:21 < fenn> i'd rather have something that was physically limited in power output below the damage threshold
13:21 < fenn> there's 10-30x difference in the power required
13:22 < fenn> heh we have two matt G's staying at langton Real Soon Now(tm)
13:23 < kanzure> om flamewar starting up soon.. everyone is asking me to put paul on moderation
13:23 < kanzure> so it turns out that on google groups, a moderator can moderate his own messages even if he is ticked as being under moderation
13:24 < kanzure> so i removed him from being moderator, so that i can successfully place him in moderation
13:24 < kanzure> obviously he is not amused by this.
13:34 < kanzure> fenn: their device is described over here:
13:34 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/500-element%20ultrasound%20phased%20array%20system%20for%20noninvasive%20focal%20surgery%20of%20the%20brain%20-%20A%20preliminary%20rabbit%20study%20with%20ex%20vivo%20human%20skulls.pdf
13:34 < kanzure> page 2.
13:35 < kanzure> apparently ultrasound work used to require skull ports/windows
13:37 < kanzure> "In addition, MRI can detect the location of the focal temperature elevation below the threshold for thermal damage (15), so the beam can be precisely aimed and functionally critical structures can be spared."
13:39 < uniqanomaly> kanzure: screw it, better write some code
13:39 < kanzure> ?
13:39 < uniqanomaly> just sayin'
13:39 < kanzure> i've been doing iOS memory management all day :) this is my break man
13:39 < uniqanomaly> ;)
13:40 < fenn> why is paul starting a flame war?
13:40 < kanzure> i guess flamewar is incorrect
13:40 < fenn> is he writing a novel again?
13:40 < fenn> (figuratively)
13:41 < kanzure> some people going back-and-forth with him about how "dude, none of those 4,000 words have anything to do with what i said, please stop"
13:41 < kanzure> and then him replying with 8,000 words
13:41 < fenn> the internet is now a human right, lulz
13:41 < fenn> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/internet-a-human-right/
13:41 < kanzure> also he was posting about some free energy stuff that they didn't like
13:42 < uniqanomaly> not in where frog eaters live
13:42 < uniqanomaly> haha
13:43 < uniqanomaly> fenn, *
13:43 < kanzure> fenn: so i'm looking over this and it seems like their '500-element ultrasound phase array' is really just a giant piezoelectric disk
13:45 < kanzure> "The piezoelectric material was covered wth electrodes on both surfaces. The black electrode was divided into 500 equal area elements (element area 2.8 cm^2). The piezo-composite material was then formed to a hemispherical shape (diameter 30cm). The front electrode was connected to ground and the back electrodes to individual coxial cables. Mounted in fibgerglass. Front electrode covered by an acoustic matching layer that also acted as an electrica
13:46 < kanzure> oh "This material includes small piezo-ceramic pillars embedded in a polymer matrix (22)."
13:47 < kanzure> 22: Chapelon J.Y., Cathignol D., Cain C., Ebbini E., Kluiwstra J.U., Sapozhnikov O.A., Fleury G., Berriet R., Chupin L., Guey J.L. New piezoelectric transducers for therapeutic ultrasound. Ultrasound Med. Biol. 2000;26:153-159.
13:47 < fenn> how does it couple to the skull?
13:48 < kanzure> water?
13:49 < kanzure> skull attached to polycarbonate frame
13:49 < kanzure> array attached to an acrylic tank submerged in water
13:49 < kanzure> (skull was touching the water)
13:50 < kanzure> oops "in contact" gotta sound professional
13:51 < fenn> looking at the figure, the part labeled "skull" doesn't make sense
13:52 < fenn> oh, "using ex-vivo human skulls and an animal model"
13:52 < fenn> that is silly
13:52 < kanzure> ieee array driver article: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/Design%20and%20evaluation%20of%20a%20feedback%20based%20phased%20array%20system%20for%20ultrasound%20surgery.pdf
13:53 < kanzure> 1.2-1.8 MHz is a bit too high for our interests
13:53 < fenn> should work for lower frequencies with some fudging
13:54 < kanzure> ok let's do it strap in
13:54 < fenn> i think 1.2 is fine anyway
13:54 < kanzure> yeah that's something that should be experimentally verified first
13:54 < kanzure> from what i've seen for non-ablation you should target <1 MHz
13:55 < fenn> what's the difference?
13:55 < kanzure> melting brain vs. stimulating neurons
13:55 < fenn> no i mean you're targeting a specific locus in either case
13:55 < fenn> the only difference is power, which shouldn't affect the scattering at all
13:56 < fenn> hence why you're reading these papers in the first place, right?
13:56 < kanzure> I KNOW NOTHING
13:56 < fenn> i'm on to you
13:57 < kanzure> i was a little disappointed by this paper:
13:57 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/Transcranial%20pulsed%20ultrasound%20stimulates%20intact%20brain%20circuits%20-%202010.pdf
13:57 < kanzure> they did stimulation of some mice in vivo
13:58 < kanzure> um, but apparently they didn't test if they could cause real-time twitching
13:58 < kanzure> they just tested a slice of motor cortex instead
13:58 < kanzure> but did about 50,000+ tests of ultrasound stimulation sessions on mice
13:59 < kanzure> oh wait maybe i misread and they did do it
13:59 < kanzure> "The muscle activity triggered by US stimulation of motor cortex produced EMG responses similar to those acquired during spontaneous muscle twitches (fig. 3A)."
14:00 < kanzure> "When using transducers directly coupled to the skin of mice, bilateral stimulation with transcranial US produced the near-simultaneous activation of several muscle gruops, indicated by tail, forepaw, and whisker movements (Movie S2)."
14:01 < kanzure> "By.. making small 2mm adjjustments to the position of transducers or collimators over motor cortex within a subject, we could differentially evoke the activity of isolated muscle groups (Movie S2)."
14:01 < kanzure> "Despite these intriguing observations, we found it difficult to reliably generate fine maps of mouse motor cortex using US for brain stimulation."
14:03 < kanzure> tail twitches: pulsed US at 0.50 MHz, 100 cycles per pulse, 1.5 kHz, 80 pulses (not sure what PRF means)
14:03 < kanzure> 64.53 mW/cm^2 hmm
14:04 < kanzure> huh wait.. figure 1 does not show an array but rather a simple ultrasound setup.
14:07 < kanzure> er, i mean a collimator
14:18 < kanzure> don't keep yer private shit on google sites
14:18 < kanzure> http://www.tylerlab.com/system/app/pages/sitemap/hierarchy
14:18 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGEP6iWLsvQ
14:21 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKrGUA3pAOE
14:22 < kanzure> what the fuck? ultrasound-induced seizure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfYp9H7fP0g
14:23 < kanzure> influence of shock wave on lipid bilayer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0msVw1dewYQ
14:41 < fenn> i love these G-CaMP movies http://bit.ly/lqkTUX
14:42 < kanzure> what has anselm said?
14:44 < fenn> what what?
14:44 < kanzure> he still lives with you right?
14:44 < fenn> yes, we are in different time zones at the moment though
14:44 < kanzure> well that's useless
14:45 < fenn> any specific questions?
14:45 < fenn> actually, tristan ursell is the one doing lots of studies of mechanical stress on lipid bound proteins (such as sodium ion channels)
14:46 < fenn> though lately he's gone off on this crusade to solve the protein folding problem
14:46 < kanzure> every time i see mechanosensativity studies on neurons i think 'so if i punch hard enough i can knock some sense into people?'
14:46 < fenn> millions of tiny punches
14:47 < kanzure> the way of a million flying minifists
14:48 < kanzure> what's bruce lee's thing? the way of the flying fist?
14:48 < fenn> the two inch punch?
14:49 < fenn> one inch punch, sorry
14:50 < kanzure> oh man i can't find this now
14:50 < kanzure> i swear there was someone who studies a martial art technique known as "way of the flying fist"
14:50  * fenn mumbles something about a martial arts move generator
14:51 < kanzure> hwarang-do.. the way of flowering man hood
14:52 < kanzure> oh. taekwondo "the way of foot and fist"
14:52 < kanzure> i guess that's close enough
14:56 < kanzure> aha
14:56 < kanzure> jeet kwon do
14:56 < kanzure> 'way of the intercepting fist'
14:57 < kanzure> so it was bruce lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qvYa5t-JUc
14:58 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do
15:11 < kanzure> fenn: dunno if i told you about 'Google Street View Fighter'
15:12 < kanzure> elevenarms suggested we make a game and that's what popped into my head..
15:36 < kanzure> http://futurelabcamp.com/2011/biohackturing
15:36 < kanzure> carrot ecology?
15:37 < kanzure> well at least they have links
15:37 < kanzure> and a "wiki"
15:37 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lc9Hf6uQMGy7gfI2BypQE1aX31ggVlTeS5hSunnDnk4/edit?hl=en&authkey=CM2a1agB
15:38 < kanzure> '3D-printed peristaltic pump mechanism' http://peristalsis.tentacleriot.eu/
17:19 < kanzure> "Every day half of all the bacteria in the oceans are killed by phages."
17:19 < QuantumG> won't someone please think of the bacteria?
17:20 < kanzure> Right now, a bacteria needs you. Your $0.50/mo donation or more will help feed hundreds of trillions of orphaned cells all around the globe.
17:20 < kanzure> i should do a bacterial adoption agency
--- Log closed Thu Jun 09 00:00:07 2011